148130-forcing-f2p-players-to-spend-20
Content ---- ---- It's pretty tough to kill something that is already dead. I'd be surprised if Warhound boasted an active population higher than 1k.........7pm on a Sunday and there's less than 20 people in Illium. The only experience Warhound is providing to new players is a negative one, it may even be preventing old F2P players from returning. So why is something that is not only adding nothing to the game, but potentially damaging it at the same time allowed to exist? | |} ---- Warhound exists because many players see the open-world PvP as worthwhile to keep around even if they are one of the few that enjoy that aspect of play. I'm curious why rolling on Entity-2 wasn't an option? I take it you and your friends rejoined the F2P rush during the first ~2 weeks or so before the extra servers opened up? They really did take too long to open up servers, I agree on that aspect. By the time they did, the rush was already starting to die down and WildStar already got a repuation for shoddy networking service and 'bad' servers. Once that reputation is obtained, it is quite difficult to shake off. Now that the population has stabilized, the question remains whether they will attempt a Steam (re)launch and whether they'll do better this time. My odds are on 'nope'. I believe that NcSoft seems to have far more control than they care to admit and may not want this non-Korean MMO to thrive. | |} ---- I wouldn't go as far to say NCsoft doesnt WANT this game to succeed............just that how many chances can you give a game? Typically games don't need more than 1 or 2 chances to take off if they are good. Wildstar has failed MISERABLY twice now, despite the well advertised and hyped F2P launch. Knowing those facts, you would think Carbine would want to do as much damage control as possible. Alienating new players who "chose wrong" at server select is a pretty stupid thing to let happen, even moreso to act like it isn't happening. | |} ---- ---- Definitely some interesting concepts and solutions.........certainly far more interesting than anything put place so far. The problems lies in the fact that Carbine is a skeleton studio, likely with little support from NCsoft following the F2P debacle. I want to believe things are going to turn around and Carbine will start churning out content and most importantly QoL updates, but logically I just don't believe that's a realistic notion.......and Carbine has done nothing to alter that perception either. | |} ---- Sounds like a great idea! Just have it so you can change the flag if you want but it has a 24 hour cooldown or something. What this game definitely doesn't need is new players joining dead servers. | |} ---- ---- I started the day F2P went live (if constantly dcing and such can be called starting), so I'm not sure what you are looking at.....................Entity had nearly an 8 hour wait time when I logged in. It took them a VERY long time to create seperate servers, so much so to the point that they were only lighty used. | |} ---- I'm looking at your account information... I've played on Entity since F2P launch, actually since the original Entity was created. I never waited more than 40 minutes to play let alone 8 hours. There were long queue times given during F2P launch but it never took anywhere as long as it stated. At least not for me. I must have just been lucky I guess. Edited December 14, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- Well considering I was playing for the vast majority of the day (or as least trying) on my birthday which was the 30th, so I'm not sure what to tell you. Also, you were a subscriber at that point in time which allowed you to jump in front of the line. I don't have to argue over wait time since if you even glanced at the forums or reddit you would recall most people waiting HOURS. My point still stands, Warhound is a trap for those interested in PvP.............it offers little in the way of open world pvp because there is nobody to fight. | |} ---- No, I stopped playing several months before F2P launch. I haven't Subscribed since returning. My Cosmic Rewards were high enough to unlock all the perks I wanted going in. They were based upon how much $ players spent prior to the F2P launch. Queue priority wasn't one of them. I understand not wanting to play on a low population server. I don't believe flaming Carbine in this thread is the right way to go about getting any sympathy though. "Wildstar has failed MISERABLY twice now, despite the well advertised and hyped F2P launch." Edited December 14, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- Flaming? I think there is a bit of difference between pointing out the obvious and talking about it vs flaming. After 2 well advertised and highly hyped launches, the end result is >20 people streaming and wathcing WS on Twitch................I'd be interested in how you'd like to argue that they did fail "MISERABLY". | |} ---- ---- ---- There's a very good reason why PvP servers are dead. | |} ---- ---- ---- There were ways to "bypass" the queue, but it required hopping between servers. Wasn't the ideal situation, but it was a way to cut that 8 hour queue down to like 5 minutes if you were persistent. I am in no way saying that it was a good thing, but the trick I mentioned above wasn't well known or distributed. | |} ---- I liked the idea of a PVP server, hence why I rolled one at launch. But soon it became apparent that it wasn't what my guild wanted so we decided to take the free transfer to a PVE server before the mega-merge. It's a catch-22 though. Some people won't even give WildStar a chance if there is not a dedicated PVP server. And then others hear how bad PVP is and won't even give it a chance anyway. I personally do enjoy the PVP, when I want to do it. What Carbine needs to do (as is echoed throughout many posts here on the forums) is completely SEPARATE the PVP and PVE engines so that abilities and items work differently depending on the zone you are in. Is this going to a huge undertaking? Most definitely. But if they want to save PVP (and maybe the game) then they owe it to themselves and the community to do so. PVE gets broken to fix PVP, and vice versa. I know they are doing their best, and I commend them. But I also want them all to continue to have a job to go to so we all have a game we can continue to play. This weekend was "dead" from what I could tell. Now, everyone take a step back and also realize that right now is the holiday season. And while you may think that there will be an increase in activity, note that people are hosting/visiting family, taking extended trips, taking tests to finish their degree, and also catching up on other games that have recently come out. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's the truth. In fact, this weekend, I did a few dungeons and then got caught up on some FallOut 4 between taking care of my 3.5 month old. So on that note, everyone please DON'T FREAK OUT about the servers being "dead" until after the New Year comes. This is the time of year that people may not play as much because RL hit. ***Oh, and also people watching Star Wars marathons to get rdy for this next weekend*** Edited December 14, 2015 by h4vix | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Oh, I know. Of course, they're going to hold out until the last possible second - once 99.9% of the PVP server has abandoned ship for good, before they FINALLY look up and offer a solution that doesn't involve "Everyone who is left, re-roll or give us $20 per character!" Because you KNOW that's what the hope is. They want as many people as possible to pay for as many transfers as they can stomach. Transfers are the ultimate in "free money" for an MMO. No effort, no product. Press a couple of buttons and watch A WILD TWENTY DOLLAR BILL APPEARS! | |} ---- Note that the leveling speed has increased by leaps and bounds. Unless you have some raid gear, or other irreplaceable cosmetic items, switching isn't as onerous as you might think. People now "ding" 50 in less than a day. I wasn't aware of it (because I had no need to check), but if you can pay for a transfer with omnibits, that's pure awesomeness by Carbine. | |} ---- Very true. With the Freebie XP Flasks, the Freebie R&R Flasks, the various Cosmic Reward Flasks, Guild XP Bonus, Authenticator Bonus and Renown XP Flasks, there is no reason to set foot in the leveling experience and not have somewhere between 10% and 110% XP increase. | |} ---- I'm 550 Omnitbits shy.......but that is completely beside my entire point. I'm still being forced to go out of my way to rectify a situation caused solely by Carbine. I am currently re-lvling my Engi, but only because I have the time and inclination to do it. However, to be brutally honest I don't even know if I will even finish because slogging the same class through 50 lvls of the same content is of questionable enjoyment. If it took a couple hours to get to 50 that would be one things, but it takes days for the "average" person. I also have no interest in spending money on XP pots to, once again, rectify a situation caused solely by Carbine. My friends have all left at this point, that fact I cannot change because they will not re-lvl a chracter, nor will they waste $20. The sad part is that a few of them WERE going to return for the Holidays, but not to an empty server.........I can only imagine how many similar scenario's there are to mine out there. What's more frustrating is that Carbine hasn't even acknowledged the problem, which leads me to believe that they DO NOT CARE. To which I'm quite content in responding that I do not HAVE TO care either.........not does my wallet. | |} ---- ---- ---- That's Carbine's fault, too. I mean, obviously. :lol: | |} ---- At the time when Carbine opened the split servers there was little need for them on Warhound as there was rarely a wait to begin with and server stability had for the most part settled. I also wanted the "idea' of a pvp server....... The problem is how Carbine is reacting to the situation now. It's blatantly obvious that the server has once again crashed in population and most major guilds have already transfered off. The server exists now only to house the few remaining guilds and to serve as a trap for new players. Which, make no mistake about it......Warhound is a huge trap for new players. Do you really think that a player will level themselves to 50, realize that the end-game is just as empty as leveling then say to themselves "well maybe I'll give the PvE server a try"? | |} ---- ---- forum account creation date has nothing to do with game account creation date...just sayin | |} ---- Yeah, encourage them to stop RIGHT THERE and re-roll on a PVE server! :lol: :lol: | |} ---- :P Silly Tex :P | |} ---- Heh well, just being Realistic Tex, too. I don't really like being Doomy and Gloomy about things, but the sad state of PVP servers since ... oh, I dunno ... a year ago? ... Has left me pretty jaded when it comes to this topic. I came from DC Universe and World of Warcraft, were I played on the PVP Phase and an RP-PVP server. Some of the best times I've ever had in MMO's has been doing open world PVP for no reason than just the pure fun of smashing faces in a big group of face-smashers. WildStar's PVP servers just never had a chance. The biggest reason to play on a PVP server is Open World PVP, right? At Launch, we didn't even get Prestige for open world kills (hell, I'm not sure we get any today because I quit caring about it) and the aforementioned two whole (?) PVP-flagging quests just wasn't worth it. PVP servers need Open World PVP goals IN EVERY PVP ZONE. Whether it's just for points, for prestige, for bragging rights, for a minor buff, for Cheeve points ... whatever. there MUST be some motivation to stay and fight in the world and Nexus is just woefully, painfully, obvious-to-pretty-much-everyone unprepared for that kind of fun. So, be honest, what does that leave to do? Gank or Be Ganked. Period. Not exactly a screamingly awesome reason to bother. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I don't think you should equate instanced PVP like BGs with PVP servers. Instanced PVP is cross server and has nothing to do with PVP servers. I agree that premades played a part i killing BGs. | |} ---- No less lame than "Entity." I mean, really? :lol: Evindra for life. B) | |} ---- ---- What change is this, Syl? | |} ---- ---- ---- They mean exactly what I meant, thanks for contributing though. | |} ---- No one is forcing you to spend anything, and you can play the game for free. If you agree, then your thread title is disingenuous clickbait. | |} ---- Forcing? Perhaps not directly......but they are providing no option other than to re-level, which in my book (and probably many others) is little different. The alternative is to what? Stay on a server with an population that I'd bet doesn't even break 1k.......no thanks. | |} ---- Yeah, that's pretty much your options. Reroll on your target server. Pay for a transfer. Wait for a merge or an increase in population, neither of which is guaranteed to happen. If I was in your position and didn't have any rare character bound items, i.e. promotional mounts I value using, I'd probably go with rerolling, I hear it's pretty fast these days. | |} ---- Raid gear being BiS for PvP for a bit, for example :P | |} ---- I am saying that it directly influenced all of the population. Many people just stopped playing after being shit on. Why wouldn't they? I was solo Qing and trying to teach people objectives and carry hard. But then a group of people I would routinely run premeds with before F2P would be on the opposite team graveyard farming and taunting the new players. I talked to them and they agreed to stop and that I was right. And then just kept on doing it despite knowing full well they were killing their own games population. Driving it back to the same handful of people fighting each other over and over. The community as a whole and people as individuals should feel partially responsible. It is not entirely their fault as carbine facilitated it with their broken match making and other oversights. Just you know, caution, contents may be hot after heating. Common sense and shit. | |} ---- ---- On a PvP server? From my experience with other games that's easy. You either let whatever faction tagged it first go ahead and kill it in hopes they'll leave your side alone when the boss respawns or you go in and try to wipe them in an effort to then pull and kill the boss before they're back and can interfere. It's great fun. The issue arises on a PvE server with the suggested 24hrs flag. Chances are that there will be enough people present who are not flagged that you can't do anything to prevent the opposing side from killing the boss regardless of what you do. That somewhat cheapens the experience for PvP players. | |} ---- Let's get one thing straight. Nothing you've stated is a fact. You believe in your opinion that WildStar has failed miserably twice now. That depends on how someone defines failure and whether the F2P relaunch is considered a 'failure' as well. I would disagree strongly that the F2P relaunch was a failure. I'd just say that it accomplished what it set out to do (get more people into the game and paying money) but doesn't deliver enough of an incentive to maintain a Signature subscription with the paltry 'bonuses' that such a monthly subscription provides. Better off to spend $15/month in NCoin. I've just highlighted the issue with why people won't bother with World PvP even if you try to force it onto them or incentivize it. The risk of being one-shot by a random max-level trolling for lulz is not worth the time wasted for that 5% or whatever bonus. A world PvP person will see more people around but almost none of them will bother being flagged because of this. If you want to incentivize real PvP among the same levels, then that's the way to go. Don't even LET lower-levels get targeted by someone of higher level. Let people only be able to attack someone of the opposing faction that is equal to or below above their level. Ok so what about twinks? That'll be an issue. The answer is that it'll only be an issue for those who still flag themselves with the 'equal or higher level' PvP rule in place. The emperor (PvP players) has no clothes and fails to realize just how silly they look in asking questions of everyone else who is staring at them and wondering what a fool they look like. The emperor looks like a fool because they are oblivious to reality. The reality of the current PvP situation is that it isn't fun for most players. It isn't fun for a variety of reasons and one of those is that being ganked by a 50 repeatedly while leveling is not fun. It doesn't matter how fun you try to make it. Aion Online learned this the hard way; they completely crashed and burned to a crisp in their initial subscription-only North American and Europe launches when they forced everyone to 'world PvP or gtfo'. And people did GTFO straight back to whatever MMO didn't do so. The market spoke and it spoke loudly with their wallets leaving and with most of them never returning. Let's be real here: Twitch should not be considered a barometer of any game's success. It should be subscriber/active daily players that count for that metric. WildStar Twitch may have less streamers because those who would be interested are playing the game rather than watching it on Twitch? Some MMOs have few streamers but tons of players. Aion & TERA being two of the biggest examples. Carbine would be remiss if they didn't do a bit on their part to hand out some goodies/NCoin/OmniBits to members of the community that produce exceptional/useful addons and fansites. But Carbine may not even have enough people able to keep track of everything to do any of that. It is difficult to say what the situation is exactly without being inside Carbine itself. EDIT: Above level, not below. Silly me >_< Edited December 15, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Aion and Tera both hover around 1k viewers everyday, not a huge number by any stretch, but certainly respectable for older niche MMO's. Wildstar on the other hand is lucky to break 50 on a good day. Also, saying that people would rather be playing than watching streaming is tough to legitimize because A.)......people aren't playing and B.) most MMO's worth playing are streamed.........and therefore have at least a light following. There's a correlation there, whether you choose to accept that fact or not. | |} ---- would have more people watching if palmtop came back. he was the best. current streamers are boring... | |} ---- QFT I played Aion at launch and left for this exact reason. While trying to level you would have max level characters of the opposite faction camping respawn points ganking lower level players over and over again. If it wouldn't have been for that I would have continued playing. The PvE content was quite fun. It's not fun however to be killed without any choice in the matter. Especially when all you want to do is level and enjoy the Story. The only choice was to log off and try another day. Who want's to do that? Not me and neither did most of the player base. Edited December 15, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- It's not obvious. First it wasn't "well advertised". I read posts all the time of payers complaining about the lack of advertising of this game. Other than a few MMO/gaming sites it wasn't advertised at all. Carbine increased their Mega server farm from 10 to 15 with an expected X amount of players. The amount of players that actually tried F2P at launch took Carbine by surprise. That's why they revved up the second set of temporary servers to begin with. To handle the unexpected influx of players the game received. The population is completely fine on the one PvE server(s) that currently exist. Now we are at the designated amount of servers (1) without a population problem (other than the PvP servers). If you think it failed miserable because the open world PvP servers are dead I would say your delusional for thinking they would be otherwise. Open world PvP just isn't fun. Only a handful of players think it is. Many games have tried it and failed. This game isn't the exception, it's following the same pattern as many before it. I'd like you to find 20 players steaming nearly any MMO, even WoW. Streams of an MMO are not something many people watch because a MMO is about the Story. How many MMO streams do you watch regularly? BTW, I just checked and Wow, the most played MMO in the world currently has 3 streamers going right now. Does that mean it is failing miserably, no. People don't watch MMO streams, they're boring. Edited December 15, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- That could very well be. I couldn't remember if it was an automatic creation or if we had to signup for the Forum since I did it a long time ago. He still couldn't have played for much more than 3 days (72+ hours) before the new servers were brought online. September 29 was the launch date, October 2nd is when the second set of servers went live. It still wasn't the "only option" three days in. Edited December 15, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- ---- Who said "no one" enjoys PvP servers? EDIT: I agree BTW that the implementation of PvP in Wildstar wasn't done very well. Tex explained it already, no need for me to repeat what is already written. Edited December 15, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- it's kind of the same as saying that no-one sees it as fun. On the initial launch, Hazzak got so packed that they had to launch extra servers, on the relaunch Luminai had queues. It isn't following the same pattern as many MMOs before it, it's following the same pattern as it did when it was sub. First Luminai, then Warhound, third one to die out is always Jabbit and Entity is the last one to follow. | |} ---- That not saying NO ONE, that's your assumption of what I meant. There is no "kind of" saying anything. You either say it or don't. You can assume what someone is saying though... :rolleyes: I said Open World PvP isn't fun, that's my opinion. I didn't say "no one enjoys PvP servers" anywhere. I also said "many" have failed but I didn't say "all". Guess why? Because some have done it right. Edited December 15, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- It didn't fail because PvP servers are dead. They failed to get rid of bugs in PvP and start season 2 (and give it proper rewards) while ppl were still playing. For this reason pvp oriented players left, leaving two skeleton servers behind. Though it is wrong to blame open world pvp for the current lack of players on pvp servers though (this is what you said), pvp players I know are more concerned about arena and bgs. We simply transfered back to Luminai because it was more likely to find pvp oriented players for contents we enjoy there. If they had taken care of PvP one year and half ago there would've been no need for a relaunch. PvE isn't enough for making WS flourish (we saw it during the last year) nonetheless they didn't care much about half of their playerbase. I don't know what you've checked but WoW always has at least 2k + players watching (maybe you had it filtered to your mother tongue streames), as for now 10.50am (UTC+1) it has 5434 viewers. Most of the views come from pvp streams (3v3). | |} ---- I'd love to see some screenshots of this. Aion has...what...MAYBE possibly a handful of streamers at any one time and even then almost all of them are exclusively PvP-focused with the lone 'new person derp' female streamer trying to Twitch-blurb for cheap subs and views. Happens with every game, really. Aion Online PvP is now 100% worthless due to extensive hacking (in both factions) via AS and without any action against them by NcSoft (despite hundreds of reports against those players) and even with evidence from the hacker themselves WHILE THEY STREAM nothing is done for months. So either viewers don't know, don't care, or only tune in for the streamer entertainment themselves (rather than the game they play), I don't know exactly which reason it even has so many supposed viewers (in any region). As for TERA? Loli jailbait in fetish outfits. Enough said. But even that doesn't get as many viewers as they'd like. Most I ever see is maybe ~20 or 30 viewers across the handful of streamers each weekend. So screenshots would help cause I'm calling BS on both of those (having had my GPU go kaput on me barely a month ago and forced to watch Twitch Streams for several weekends till it was fixed). | |} ---- @ 6:00pm EST on Twitch WoW currently has 32k viewers, Elder Scrolls is at 1.5k, GW2 is at 1k, TERA has just under 500, and Aion is dead with less than 100 viewers........and Wildstar has less than 20. @Equl1ity.............You are spouting a lot of opinions like they're facts. An opinion is fine, but please don't discount others and use your generic assumptions as fact. Not everyone hates open-world pvp, in fact when it's done properly is an incredible draw to player. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't be anyone playing on pvp servers in any MMO. WoW's PvP server for example were at launch and still remain packed, same with TERA.....so making generic sweeping statements like that is ignorant and adds nothing to a discussion. | |} ---- Now those numbers I can agree with. There's one or two really popular TERA streamers playing Elins (because again loli jailbait fetish outfits kawaii desu whatever) and being absolutely boring/useless otherwise. Aion having less than 100 viewers sounds about right. At most I noticed a peak of MAYBE 300 when someone was doing a charity event a while ago. The 'about 1k' number was garbage and I'm glad that someone double-checked it for me. I've been busy with work/stuff or I'd hop on Twitch and check it myself. Twitch website blocked at work...sad cupcake is sad. :( | |} ---- I checked it myself, when I posted the previous numbers they were accurate at 1k. Though my point is still proven by the fact that if you look at viewer trends. The last time WS was above 1k was back on Oct 3rd at the F2P relaunch, since that time it has fallen to an average of ~25 viewers. TERA consistantly posts between 500-1.5k veiwers but is typically just under 1k. Aion is in fact just as dead as Wildstar with an average of ~100 viewers. So color me wrong with my previous stats. | |} ---- Reading comprehension fail! "I'd like you to find 20 players steaming 'nearly' any MMO, even WoW" His remark was about STREAMERS as was my reply. Streamers are the people playing, viewers are the ones watching the streamers. There was in fact 3 'streamers' on last night when I checked. I said nothing about viewers. Wow, again someone takes what I wrote and tries to spin it into something I didn't say. Can this thread get anymore OFF TOPIC than it already has? You know, the OPs "only option" of Warhound and how Carbine should feel bad for his decision. Edited December 16, 2015 by Equa1ity | |} ---- You have seem to have a lot of pent up hostility, so I'd ask that you kindly not derail this thread anymore than you already have. You've not added anything of substance to the discussion besides inciting inflammatory remarks. Thanks. | |} ---- I don't have any "pent up hostility". I have a problem with someone spinning what I say to meet their narrative. Don't try to analyze me. You have the nerve after the Tile of this thread and the posts you have written? I didn't derail, I have only replied to comment's made to me or about my post. I made one comment that wasn't a reply and it was to you as well as on Topic. Don't quote or reply to me and I won't reply back, it's that simple. Otherwise I have every right to. Peace | |} ----